The William Shakespeare's line, "What fools these mortals be," sums it all up perfectly. —Valeria Stewart, Azure Hollywood Productions

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Stone & Kleinman were the draw which brought most of the grad students to the program. I took a sound design class with Stone, who had on over 120 films over more than 25 years, including Coppola's "Dracula," which won him an Oscar.

You can't put a dollar value on that sort of in-the-trenches insight into Hollywood production values.

Grad students rearranged entire schedules just to take a class with them; their classes added value and were highly rated by students...even moreso than the recent disappointing class in "producing" taught by Steve Jones, which was essentially 10 weeks of first person tales from the set of "Wild Things," "Quebec," and "Henry."

Stone & Kleinman taught skills, crafts, not lectures about celebrity blowjobs.

Without Stone & Kleinman, there are 3 or 4 professors with good resumes and solid film field skills, notably Dana Hodgdon who founded Northwestern's film program, ace cinematographer Scott Erlinder, and screenwriting and visuals prof Ron Eltanal. Stone & Kleinman added much, if not the most value to our degrees.

Grad students who pay $5,000 for each 10-week quarter are the ones losing value in the their education, and the worth in a degree from DePaul, not the egos making decisions that affect them.

Somebody should be held accountable for destroying the pillars holding up the value of the program and its awarded degrees. Let's make sure it does, fellow DC students.

Flashpoint will benefit from our loss if they snatch up these two professors and that's a hit we shouldn't take. —Digital Cinema Grad Student

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My conversations with Dave, in fact, kept me enrolled when I had serious doubts as to whether I would stay in the program.

Dave has been a huge source of both knowledge and encouragement to me personally, and to everyone who has taken his classes. It is a shame that no one in future semesters at DePaul will benefit the way that I have.

It seems rather obvious what has happened here. DePaul used Dave and Lou's reputation to endlessly promote the legitamacy of the digital cinema program, only to let them go when enrollment numbers reached respectable numbers.

I've lost a lot of respect for this program and certainly will not be pursuing my MFA here. —Digital Cinema Grad Student

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I know both men pretty well and as a graduating Digtal Cinema student I am saddened to know that the new crop of students will be learning without Stone & Kleinman's expertise.

DePaul is making a HUGE mistake to let such amazing professors go! —Senior Digtial Cinema Student

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DePaul University should be embarrassed by such crappy and shady behavior. I wouldn't be surprised if the powers-that-be either don't know about this OR they do know but just don't care.

Apparently, all the DePaul administration cares about is the bottom line--not the quality of the education they're providing. —DePaul student

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I feel very sorry for future generations of student who won't be able to learn under these two amazing men. And I'm sure that the student body, including myself, is not going to remain quiet about this. —Senior Digital Cinema student, DePaul University

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It would have been easy to feel intimidated by them (just look at their body of work), but they were sure to make their students feel more like peers and colleagues than anything else.

My faith in this program declined drastically when Vanessa was let go, and this recent development has only added to my doubts. These professors deserve better. —A Disappointed Digital Cinema Student

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DePaul had something good going for it by having hired Vanessa, Dave, and Lou. Now that they're gone, the Hollywood experiences they can share with students and aspiring filmmakers are gone as well. —DePaul Digital Cinema Alum

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The fact is that teaching the craft of filmmaking is not easy. Many do it and few succeed. I've taken plenty of classes where I wonder where my thousands of dollars are going, because I didn't learn a single thing.

Then there are those classes which are worth it, and change the way you think about and approach your craft.

Dave and Lou's Hollywood credits are invaluable to the worth of our degrees because we can say we learn from the people who really do it, who have had successful careers in this brutal business. But beyond their credits, they knew how to teach. They taught the craft, not just the technology, which is always changing, but the essence of the craft.

DePaul Digital Cinema program has just taking giant leaps back. Let's hope that they take some action to at least get back to where they were. —Digital Cinema Student, DePaul University Digital Cinema

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I have started a petition on Facebook that asks DC seniors, who are also offended by DePaul's move to fire these outstanding professors, to refrain from walking at the commencement ceremony.

Those who are interested in joining the cause, search groups for "DC seniors - boycott graduation" and respectfully do what you can to express your unhappiness. —Jasmine, Digital Cinema Senior

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I can honestly say, as an alum of DePaul who has taken classes with alot of different professors, Vaness Ament and David Stone were my most memorable for their insights.

Film/television is very competitive and the experiences and first hand knowledge gained from these three professors is something that should not be taken for granted.

I hope that this decision was not made on behalf of a few disgruntled administrators or professors because this decision was obviously not made based on what was best for Depaul students. —Toye Adeyemo, DC- 2007

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What set Dave and Lou apart from the rest of the faculty is simple: Passion, for what they do, and passion for who they teach. That's something teachers can't learn; they either have it or not.

I've hated DePaul for a long time, and having people like Dave and Lou made the school a little better. Hopefully Flashpoint does pick these two up. It'd be a terrible thing if Dave and Lou don't continue teaching. —Recently Graduated DC Kid

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What's the rationale? Why would heads of a department to whom we are giving tons of money do something that is so obviously against our best interests? —Sam, Digital Cinema student

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I'd really like to hear an honest and detailed DePaul explanation for this and what will be done to replace these guys this quarter.

Actually I'd like to hear it straight from Father Dennis. —A DePaul parent with a lot invested there

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And more's the pity for the remaining few serious craftsmen and women, since their ranks are now likely too few to close against this program's possibly well-intentioned, but definitely self-interested administrator(s).

Dr. Helmut Epp, former CTI Dean, now the university's Provost, certainly isn't this school's 'Joe DiMaggio', but it is doubtful this would have happend on his storied watch.

Because Epp's successor, Dean David Miller, has seen fit to dismiss these two in a manner evincing implications of unlikely misconduct on their parts, one can only hope that the administration will move to repair the damage to these individual's reputations. It can, at least, restore them to their posts for the remainder of the final quarter of the current academic year. —DePaul CTI/DC Undergraduate - Class of 2007

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Anything I learned in the Digital Cinema department had nothing to do with the instruction I received (with the exception of classes taken with Scott Erlinder and Deborah Tudor;I was a student before Stone and Kleinman started). In fact I would offer what I mostly learned there was what not to do.

If you are a current student in the program and really want to learn about cinema, digital techniques and how to tell stories, I would recommend transferring schools. That, or simply dropping out, buying a camera and watching films by filmmakers whom you respect. You'll save yourself a lot of time and money. Trust me! —DC Alum

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They will be sorely missed and I hope for them that they find another and better university to teach at so they can to continue to pass this on to future students.

DePaul: You need a lesson in actually listening and observing your students. You need to get your over-sized heads out of your over-sized asses. I am amazed at how we are the happiest school in the nation, especially when you continually pull crap like this.

Shame on you. —Nicole, DePaul Communications student and former DC fan.

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I cannot understand DePaul's logic, unless they are thinking about terminating the program. Which would be very sad for all involved. —Former DC Student, Cutters

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However, one might take into consideration the repercussions a student might experience when taking the risk to comment on the very people responsible for their grades and degree.

It appears that there are more than just a few students that are upset by this event. What is really going on in this film program at DePaul? —Film Fan

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This whole fiasco just really shows how the DC program works. Their website touts "state-of-the-art equipment... a faculty of experienced professionals". Well, you don't get either of those.

Sure, Dana, Scott, and Ron know what they're doing- Kim and Gary can teach screenwriting, Rob knows film sound. But how is DePaul justifying $30,000 tuition to learn what can basically be learned by watching DVDs?

They need to spend less money on flat panel HDTVs that don't get used, and more money on gear and knowledgeable, experienced, and personable professors. —Dave, DC Grad '07

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These comments aren't the products of students bitter over poor grades. Give 'em more credit--these are bright, savvy kids.

Also, the use of anonymity makes sense since the DC powers-that-be allegedly tend to quash those who disagree with them. What student needs to deal with that kind of petty behavior when trying to work hard and get good grades? —Name witheld--hey, it's my CHOICE.

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With the absence of Lou and Dave, the entire program is now based on doing your own thing with little regard to industry practices.

It's a shame to go this route due to the fact that only an elite few will make it on their own independently, while the rest will fall to the wayside with a worthless degree. It's even worse for the students currently in the program who will lose the vast amount of industry internship/job hookups that Dave and Lou brought.

While no one seems to have the whole story on this, it's tough to make any judgment calls on it. It's fairly obvious, though, that DePaul's priorities are no longer on their students, but the wallets of the few. —Anonymous Digital Cinema Grad Student, DePaul University

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And why would he or anyone else destroy the program's reputation with a tragic firing decision like this??

HOW MUCH ARE WE PAYING THIS GUY (more than Stone & Kleinman - because they are nationally renown in their industry) .... AND WHAT DOES HE ADD TO OUR PROGRAM EXACTLY??

Is he a computer whiz and top administrator? Did we elect him at some point to make HR choices?? Can we recall him like a California governor??

Maybe someone should inform him, or whomever made these faculty decisions, that some things can't be equated in a single cell of an Excel spreadsheet. It's called talent, reputration, a passion for teaching. Oh yeah, don't forget a resume of films longer than your arm.

Thank you for reporting the truth, Ruth Ratny. It seems that DePaul can only email us when they are raising our tuition rates. —Dan Page - 2nd Year DC Grad Student, D.Page Media

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I'm glad I was able to attend DePaul while Dave, Lou and Vanessa were there. They served as great mentors. I would not be the person I am today without all three of them (and, of course, SOME of the other DC faculty).

Having such a diverse faculty served as a great foundation to my filmmaking. Suffice to say, DePaul University has made a grave mistake.

To the Digital Cinema students who take their education seriously, consider changing majors or schools. —Mia Hernandez, DePaul University Digital Cinema Graduate

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Oh please. The DC program is still learning how to be a film school, and it is still a long way from learning. As long as Matt Irvine is the "head" of the program it'll never reach its full potential.

The fact that they fired two of their best faculty says it all. Dave Stone is not only a magnificent professor, and talented editor, but he is also the nicest guy in the world, generous, honest and friendly.

I feel sorry for future students. They'll still have Scott Erlinder, but he's under-appreciated by Miller and Irvine, so he might be inclined to move on to greener pastures. —Graduating Senior, DePaul Digital Cinema

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By the end of my sophomore year, I was considering switching out of the Digital Cinema program. I had many bad experiences with professors, the program was disjointed, I learned the same damn things over and over again in subsequent classes... The thing that kept me in, however, was discovering wonderful instructors like Dave, Vanessa and Lou -- smart, warm and caring. For the first time in college, I felt that the person talking to us wasn't just some moron who had happened to see a few movies before, but somebody who actually knew what they were talking about, who was passionate about their craft, and couldn't help but spread that passion to their students. It was contagious.

That is why I can hardly believe that this has happened. It does not feel good to be a senior in a program run by an egotistical moron. Nor does it feel good knowing that I have a pretty hefty amount of student loans to pay for a degree that really isn't worth that much.

I've never been the best student, I know this. But I think I have a right to be angry, pissed off, personally offended. If you are too, spread the word. —Peter, a Digital Cinema Daycare senior

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They were not only teachers with whom students enjoyed having courses, but craftsmen of the art in their respective fields. The program is turning into a joke now and am heavily considering transferring.

Prediction: RIP DePaul Digital Cinema Program coming to a theater near you. Hope you come to your senses and any respect Scott, Dana and Ron left at the helm. Don't get rid of them next too. —Soon to transfer GRAD DC Student

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They are arguably the BEST instructors in the program, because they actually CARED about making a difference. They brought INVALUABLE insight. They were very humble and charismatic. Most importantly -- they gave a $hit about their students.

Prediction: RIP DePaul Digital Cinema Program coming to a theater near you. Scott, Dana and Ron are left at the helm. Don't get rid of them next too. —Soon to transfer GRAD DC Student

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That is something that is hard to come by, and something Matt will wish he had not thrown away so foolishly. —Peter, a Digital Cinema Daycare senior

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So that year, many of the fun and exciting things that set DePaul apart from other universities were taken away.

I have a feeling the same is again true for these professors. Although they didn't focus on tests and spending all day reading a book, they taught real world experience by giving hands on lectures and allowing the student's work to speak for itself as far as showing what they have learned.

In the article, there is a sentence that says DePaul wants to be the best program in the midwest and eventually the nation. With these moves, it seems they are moving in the wrong direction.

If the university tries to use budget concerns as a reason for the dismissals, I can only hope someone brings up the white tiger farm in Ohio that DePaul donates 3 million dollars a year to. —DePaul Digital Cinema Grad

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I don't know what to say. The news isnt all that shocking, but it is difficult to understand. I, for one, can't imagine my four years at DePaul with out these professors. For DePaul and all of its students, their loss is monumental. —Jack

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While in the program, I made strides in advancing my career, because of my involvement in the Chicago film community (particularly with Women in Film) -- not because of any guidance or encouragement I received from the full time faculty, although many were helpful.

When Dave Stone arrived, I was thrilled to see a teacher in the program with high credentials (substantially higher than the rest of the full-time faculty, maybe higher than all of their credentials combined) and was also a caring teacher who wanted to his students succeed.

That Dave, Vanessa and Lou were shoved out of the program is scandalous and egregious, and certainly points directly to the integrity of the faculty and Dean Miller. Something is rotten in Denmark.

I also commend the students who are choosing to raise their voices and protest while still enrolled in the program. Your tuition money counts, and so should your voice.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, folks. Two years out and I'm still mad. —Female DC grad, the few, the proud, the ignored.

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Though some of my fellow DC students think a decision not to walk is a bit extreme, I remind them of the situation at hand. The school took extreme measures to bring Lou and Dave (and Vanessa) here and now they've taken extreme measures to remove them. I encourage DC Grad students to transfer and those who have yet to start the program to drop out. Money talks. —Jasmine, Digital Cinema Senior

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His behavior is not only reprehensible, but a serious offense against the Vincentian principals touted by DePaul. —A CTI MS graduate

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If someone really means what they say, and has evidence to prove their point, why wouldn’t they provide their names?

Imagine students who did not receive the grade they thought they deserved, or crew members that were upset with someone or had an argument about overtime or whatnot.

I feel the anononymity cloak cheapens the information your otherwise excellent ezine provides. —Ned Miller, Chicago/Midwest based Videographer

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Both had a distinctly unique style of teaching that was extremely effective at getting students to relate to the material from alternative angles -- something not usually taught by other teachers.

I also enjoyed hearing stories of their experience in the real world of filmmaking. —Digital Cinema student

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I've spoken with Dave one-on-one and he knows so many actors, actresses and directors in Hollywood. He is the only person who has told me he's met Chevy Chase. Chevy Chase!

That's crazy. If I never met Stone, I would have never gone to film school. —Confused

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I found the program to be quite misogynistic and not worth the $17,000 I now have in college loans.

My advice to any current DC student is to either transfer schools or better yet - drop out, buy yourself an HVX, watch/read about directors you respect and make your own movies.

Either way, you'll save yourself frustration and money. Also, you won't feel like an idiot for the rest of your life when folks ask you where you went to school and what you studied,and you have to sheepishly answer : DePaul's Digital Cinema program. —DC Alum

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As a neutral party, I just want to play the devil's advocate and remind you that there might be a genuinely good reason for their dismissal.

I bet it was hard for CTI to let these professors go. But the reason they won't tell you why is for the protection of Dave and Lou's rights, and it's the law that DePaul can't tell you. Ask them if you really want an honest answer! —Student playing Devil's Advocate

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If you really want to make a statement, GO to graduation. Organize some sort of protest while there. Get your speaker to refer to them. Get everyone to standup at a certain time to protest their release.

Do something extreme!

You've given them your money already. Not going to graduation just puts you out of their minds faster. Be there to make that difference. —Going to graduation and proud of it

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Many of my colleagues and I greatly value the contributions Dave Stone and Lou Kleinman have made to the DC program over the past several years. We are deeply troubled by the events surrounding the non-renewal of their contracts, and saddened by their departure.

We share the concerns regarding the quality and future of the DC program expressed by the DC students and graduates in your forum. —Xiaoping Jia, Ph.D, Software Engineering, School of CTI, DePaul University

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I can honestly say I learned less in both of their courses than any other course I’ve had at DePaul, and that includes the Wine Tasting class.

I'm actually learning a lot from the "non-Hollywood" faculty. Dana, Gary, Matt, Scott, JoAnne, etc. I think they’re all great and I totally support what they are doing with the program.

I think most of these posts are nothing more than sour grapes. —Peter S., Junior DC

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By losing likely the two most talented and respected professors it had, this program has turned itself into a very expensive waste of time.

But hey, the only people who get hurt in this deal are the ones paying $30,000 to be there each year. —Used to be a Student

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HAHAHA!

Dave and Lou will make it on their feet again. But the DePaul "program" is a joke. —Former DePaul Grad Student

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I remember feeling angry and confused, hoping that the situation would resolve itself. However, midway through my senior year, after the abrupt dismissal of Vanessa, I realized that my naivety had deceived me.

My point is, all these teachers made an excellent team (even though they never saw that). Matt, Gary, Dana, and Ron represented the independent film movement (even though they had fostered the careers of many Hollywood success stories), while Dave, Lou and Vanessa constituted the old Hollywood establishment.

Each group gave valuable insight into two very different aspects of the entertainment industry. And now that they are gone, the program will only suffer in their absence.

This message is not meant to bash, discredit, or embarrass any of the current or past faculty members of the Digital Cinema Program, rather it is my message of disappointment.

Digital Cinema could have been the premiere film program in the Midwest. Yet, in light of resent events, I believe egos, personal vendettas, and poor communication amongst its faculty members will forever keep it in obscurity.

However, I still have hope that I will be proven wrong and that Matt and crew will continue to teach and nurture young and impressionable minds into the next generation of successful Chicago or Hollywood filmmakers.

As for Dave, Vanessa, and Lou, I know they will flourish in the business or academic world, as they always have. —Art , Disney ABC/CBS’s Ghost Whisperer, Universal City, CA

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As a female in a predominantly male industry, Vanessa gave me inspiration and gave all females in the Digital Cinema program the encouragement that they too can succeed. Her loss alone was a huge blow to the program.

David is the nicest, most down-to-earth professor I have ever had. His credentials alone are intimidating. I was expecting to meet someone with a huge ego, but instead found a soft spoken guy who related to all his students. He taught so much more than what was in a textbook; he was able to ignite a flame in every student he taught.

When I think back on my four years at DePaul, I can't help but be grateful for the privilege of studying under professors like David and Vanessa. I sincerely hope that they continue teaching future generations of filmmakers. —Elisa Sweet, TMK Productions

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Yet some of them have a noble purpose and stick to their standards of "neutrality" while others just try to hurt without thinking.

I don't know ANYTHING about this whole turmoil and I don't even know most of the people involved in the controversy, but I am concerned about the tone of some of these comments. p>If an institution has consistently positive press it freaks me out, since by definition that constitutes totalitarianism. (I was born in what was still a fascist country. Of course, there was only positive press about the establishment, e.g. universities.)

Every film school in this country has, or has had, all kinds of ratings. Ultimately if you're good, and you can prove it, nobody cares where you got your expensive piece of paper.

The same thing applies when you are not good. You can make all the excuses you want and blame whomever you want, the current climate at your school, your professors, etc...nobody cares. The bottom line is "do you know your shit?"

I've been reading the following Library of Annotated Film Schools for a couple of years and I don't think I've found ONE school with 100% consistent reviews.

If you check this out you might find that some of the schools that are being brought up as "so much better" also have their share of poor ratings: http://filmmaker.com/LOAFS —Montse De Frutos

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It has been my experience that people express anger in an arena where they feel safe. Anonymity is a typical way of commenting on the internet; it allows people to say what they really think.

Perhaps there is a genuine reason for them to be upset, and they have not felt safe expressing it at DePaul.

My question would be: What is going on in this film program to provoke such responses? Why do they cite one or two particular individuals repeatedly?

That is a risk for them. I doubt they would take it capriciously. —DePaul Communications Student '09

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This is not the world where those paying tuition hold the power, and that is the underlying issue that greatly needs to be addressed. —DC Senior

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I saw him leave the building the other day, and the way he looked I thought something bad had happened. I wanted to say good-bye and thank-you. (Thanks, David Stone)

I was looking forward to studying editing this semester from Lou Kleinman.

It's a shame and a great loss for DePaul DC students. —Renay Kerkman

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The three of them were my motivation to progress as a filmmaker. I had much more respect for these people... because they were the only professors that had SUCCESS AND EXPERIENCE IN THE BUSINESS.

The difference between Vanessa, Dave, Lou and Scott was that they had passion for what they do. They took a selfless approach to teaching at DePaul. There was not any more proving what they had to do. They wanted to give back to the students, to spread the passion on.

I strongly advise students to transfer to another film academia or consider a new profession. —Brian Romano, Independent Contractor-Freelance

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The three of them were my motivation to progress as a filmmaker. I had much more respect for these people than I did for anyone else in the program because these were the only professors that had SUCCESS AND EXPERIENCE IN THE BUSINESS. They had passion. They took a selfless approach. They wanted to give back to the students, to spread the passion on.

I strongly advise students to transfer to another film academia or consider a new profession. —Brian Romano, , Independent Contractor-Freelance

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